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tv   Lou Dobbs Tonight  FOX Business  December 4, 2012 10:00pm-11:00pm EST

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we will have to wait and ee if drivers when this case. in the meantime, drive safely and watch out for highway robbers and the government. that's my "2 cents more." that is it for tonighton "the willis report." thk you for joinng yes. don't forget to reord the show with you cannot get his life. have a great night. we ll see you right bachere tomorrow. ♪ one - lou: good evening,everybody. president obama today id tha two weeks may not be nouh to avoid going over the fiscal clef . i've won't add my voice tonight to those who say mr. obama actually wants o ttake us over the cliff. it is my view that not nough habeen made by the national median of the fact that it will be the president's decisionand his alon that we all go cliff diving if, indeed,we are to go
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cliff diving. it is a decision that is cleerly , unequivocally, and unreservedlyis to make. prident obama has created the condition that must be met. to avoid te clothes and the dive. only he can judge whether his condition is rasonable ad whether it haseen reasonly met. threpublican congessional leaders are at best supporting opposing players in the obama ama. we will take all of this up hre tonigh wih leading republicans and presidential ask rent senator rand paul, a former congressman who has been to the fiscal prosodist, the chairman of the house ways and means committee and the average level conservative author ad columnist mark stein. also tonightwe reportn he nato dispatch of patriot misses to turkey. concerns over serious chemical apons egypt's new is dictators whm
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flees his presidential palace as tens of thousands of protesters turned violent. fox is military analysts joins us now. we begin tonight to eet with the president to make in the opinion of ome republicans bea the germans to of were reasonable and productive negotiations to avoid the clef. he's the president the allowwng hat there is enough time to negogotiate with both tx and in seven o reform while. he says the das avlable before the close should be devoted to raising taxes on the ridge. >> we're not goin to be ablto come up with a comprehensive tax reform package that gets it al done jst an next two weeks. ww arnot going to be able to come up with necessarily a comprehensive and thailand reform package thatcould sell the next two weeks. when you looked at wha arnol reagan did back in 1986, worki wi bill bradley and others, that was a year-and-a-half process. among let's put a downpaymmnt on
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taxes, let's let tax breaks and the upper-income folks go up. lou: president obama is loking to hide even more taxe to find more taxable victms beyond the so-called ich. but there are yet more conditionsas white ouse press secretary jay carney today reminded us. the president emnds any deal is dependent upon a hike in the nation det ceiling. carney says the debt ceiling is another issue the preident simply cannot bring himself to negotiate with those lowly republicans on the hill. and today began a new campaign of blame for the national debt directedat, yes, congress. me. >> your not going to negotiate over what is a fundamental responsibility congress, which is to pay the bills that congress cured. ithould beart of the dal. it should be done, and it should
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be done without trauma. lou: the president is not alone in demands for non negotiation of vat regions of the federal wastand. me ongressional democrats are also very spcific about hat they refuse to egotiate as well. for example, the conggessional black caucus nnounced that it is strony opposed to any cuts in medicare, medicaid, or soial curity saying entitlements mply cannot be considered in initiation. wobbrn an unprecedented meeting to ddscuss the president's messaging on tax hikes. this was not a meeting of the anchors of a number of networks, as happens time to time, bt rather a meeting wit one network exclusively. msn b.c., the president bring in a left-wing host from in as nbc, including racha matter out, al sharpton, lawrence o'donnell, and souls as well as huffington
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opposedounder area huffington. they all met with the president today in the white hhhuse straight foard about the political purpose of their meeting, saying this afternoon at the wite houe the presdent met with influential progressiv to ta about the importance of preenting a tax increase on midle class families, strengthening our economy, and adopting a balanced apoach to deficit reduction. and so it goes. my first guest says it does not matter who you tax or what form revee takeshim, taking more money at the private sector will hurt economic growth. joining us now, republican senator from the great state of kentucky from the senat rand paul. good to have you with us, senar. >> good evening. the president says we don't have enough time for tax reform or in thailand reeorm. you know my responses? we haveeentalking about this for two years. why haven't we done anything? i met with the president a year-and-a-half ago and i looked across the table in. i said in a we need to do
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something about social security. we nd to do something to sav medicare. they have done zero. how come there iso committee appear. d'aga washington. who is in charge of social security reform? nobody. everybodywaits for a dadline and throws uptheir hands and says we don't have enough time. it is broken up here, but because they're notdoing their job. lou: not doing theirjob, and whose job s ita much the republicans to start making some sense of the thing? i said, as you may have heard at the outset of tis broadcast, clearly, unequivocally, without reserve, this will be the president's decision if the tion is to be taken ove the so-called fiscal closed on januy 1st. there is no reputation,no rebuttal. that is his decision, his conditions, and republicans are behavings if they're equal partnersn the madness that would be theresult of this cision why did they pesist? >> i think we are in the middle
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of all these negoiations. people be consumed b the art of the deal. nobody really is trying to rememmer all e stand for. if we don't stand for something, if we are nt the party of limiteovernment, lower axes, then what are e ing appear? my point is, and not jumping up and down to do revenue neutral tax reform.@ i want taxes to be lowered because that is the only way you stimulate the economy, to leave more money in the conom, andd i dot think it matters if it wants raise taxes by raising rates or by geting rid of deductions. there both bad ideas. we as republicans have never thought it was a good idea, so let's of talk about how much we will raie txes but, that an idea it is when the president insists on raising taxes and the economy goes into the tank. he can get all the credit h deserves fr sending us i the wrong direction. >> well, the political coequence of this, the economic consequence of this and by this i mean going over the fiscal cliff will be significant
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, butwhat i don't %-effort, ither self delusion or misrepresentation of the facts. you all, as republicas control the house of representives. as we saw dri the ebt ceing discussions in 2011, it isot a pretty perch frm which toake on the blly pulitof the presidency. >> but i think what we need to do s not get caughti the trap of the compmise s raising tas. i hink there are many other compromises you could hae. r example, i think one compmises we cldave some money and military speding even though i thinkhat is the most impot -- lou: 55 billion? >> absolutely. i think we could..3 a think wecou alssay that,,3 you know what, the ridge could pay more for their medicare. the rich could receive less for thr social secuity.
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those are compromises i presented directly to the president a year-and-a-half ago, and he has done zero. his party hasdone zer. they are hell bent on let's go soak thererace. lou: with all respect, have you had thidiscussion with you party? what are they saying? those are atioional and effectie ideas. >> there are somin our party willxcept those, some in our party you getcaught up to much in the, we have to make a deal with the president. i think hiscan be consistent with something the president and democrats want theyhink the avege people need to pay more of there fair share. what i would say is, let's let them receive less benefefits because we don't have ough benefits to go around anyway. -et's come to a compromise there. let'look in military spndg into a compromise there. the media has said dictated that the only compromises whether to raise taxes a lot, a little, or write in the middle soewhere, what it has to be raising taxes, the onlycompromise.
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dot except that. if we raise taxes wickets ithe economy into a tailspin. lou: you know, the choice, as i said, in terms of consequences for the polical or economic lle severe. i want to credit. i don't know if you rad his pie entitled the gop, the party of slightly fewer tax hikes. this has to be a carefully managed, if youwill be the mouthpiece of political choreography becausepublican party right now, the party o free enterise and individual freedom, self-reliance, and lower taxes andsmaller government is on the vergeof giving up it claims on lower taxes, smaller government, and, perhaps, peraps migrated dependency, less iindividual eedom and self-liance. it gives no much for the party to cling to politically. lou:here is the thing. the facts are actually on our side.
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when bush cut the taxrates i 2003, do you know what happened? more reenue. th percentage of that revenue. >> adelle want to give the full answer t this. we saw the sloest jo ceation. it was on match by the procession of 2008 and nine. this is such a complicated economy, as you know as well or no better than most of the folks are responsible for managing the regulaon of this economy in ashington. but the fact of the matteris, these are not such a simpleand obvious choices that have to be made. an enator, you have ee talking, and i think honest and forthrightly about some of these decisions. we know at simply cutting taxes is not work. we know that simply spending more federal mey does not work these e the two priary principal tenants of the left and the right,the epublicans and emocrats. they have both demonstrateat it is st not that simple.
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you get the last word. >> iouldust say that we have to be competitive worldwide. we'll losing jobs. e of the reasons we lose jobs as we have an income tax of 35% on our corporatios. canadas 15%. europe and te loo 20's. money goes where iswelcome, and money and jobs are falling to other countries. we will have to change our tax had to make it more as the double the business. lou: as always. goo talk wit ou. much more on the fiscal cliff, the negotiations that wt to college. we will take that up wit the "a-team" and throughout the broadcast tonight. arabs brg to winter of discootent. chemical wapons, iranian nukes, tensf thousands protesting ease of snow is dictated. is u.s. intervention next? carl oliver north joins us in moments. runaway spending, our natinal debt top $16 trillion.
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whis doing the math? my next gest says it is all rse than people no. former house ways and means committee chairman bill archer aftethe break. ligations, but obligatio. i need trethink the core omy portfolio. what i really need is slee introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call-800-ishares for a prospectus which incdes investment objectives, risks, cha and expenses. ad and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal.
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♪ lou: $16 trillion in national debt, so put tat figure closer to a nearly $90 trillion. among them, a fomer ways and means committee hairman bill archer. he joins us ere in just moments to take a look at the fiscal cliff. a man who, as i said earlier in the broadcast was present at the previo precipices and survived it all. he will give us his insights. first, going to wall street, the markets tonight. "moneyline." stuck in a fairly tight trading range.
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investors cautious as they gow increasingly nervous about the fiscal cliff. the dow jones industrial dow 14 points, sp lost and ahalf, nasdaq down six. over 3 billion shares traded on the big board today. two re companies announcing special cash dividends. e investment ompany the announcing a dividend of $0.20 per share in the special dividend of a dollar per share both paable before year's end. and announcing a dolar dividend per share, payable on christmas eve. in its release, they went on to say that after january 1st the company beieves paying cash didends may not be the most effective way of rewarding sharders withtse higher taxes on dividends. well, our next guest heresays, as washington is wrestling with a fiscal clef they are not contending with far greater allenges, often hidden from policymakers and the public ecause ofor less than transpart government financial reporting to say theleast.
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ll, we often hearabout, of course, $16 trillion national debt, a trillion dollardefiit first, the actual liabilities of the federal governmnt, including social security, medire, federal employees future retirement benefits exceeding $86trillion. by the way, that is five and a half times the size of our economy. joining us, former congressman bill archer, erved as chairman of the powerf ways and ans committee. he is a senior policyadvisert pric waterhoue coope, and it is great to see you, mr. chairman, once again. you look terrific. i enjoyed ur op-ed along with chris cox. pointing out th essentially what a relief it was to find t of all have to worry about $16 trillion. i have to worry about $86 trilli. >> it is much bigger than what we were looking at. the so-called fiscal cliff is going to be just aslope and
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ultimately a relatively small indentation because in the long term when we began to look t the liabilities that we have committed to primarily medicare, but also social seurity an other ffderal retirement, itis massive. and tis strange thing about it is here we are debating, should increa axes? and yet these particular prra, if you look at what those liabilities are, so g thathere is not going to be enou tax revenue to take care of it. even if youtook 100 percent of the corporate earnings someone under percent of the inividual earnings of 65,000, you don't have enough money to take cae of it. lou: there is not enough mney. let's be straight forwardere. $86 trillion. i mean, that's just about takes
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care of te world's gdp. and the fact is, this debate over the fiscal cliff, you have gone throuthis the exercise and trauma before. 1996 as chrman of the house ways and means committee. a center stageposition. what counsel could you give te spker, the repulican leads president who has set the conditions for not oly what must be met in order to avid the cliff, but ha st the parameters of thedebate and negotiation if there is to be one itself. >> wl, you remember very we thate had a very different white house. president clinton had decided that he was ing to try to work with th republicans. he brought in a new chief of staff the name of erskine bowles, and in that has popped up again. and he immediately called me and said to my here to work with you and that enabled us to do al of things that i don't think the republicans today can get done
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with this obama white house. lou:and are you and i in agreement th the republicans are not innear sufficiently strong position, not with the lack of taent, there are ome quesonsabou that but because of the lack f power of the leaers in the house and the role of the housen this negotiation. >> i am not prepared to ay that. i go up to the capitol every week and meet with the republican leaders and lten to them as thy talked very openly about what tir views are d what they're trying to get done. and i cantell you tt they are a lot stronger than they have been presented by the conservative media. the interesting thng about the speaker is to o make you look carefully at his roposals, he is never implyg that e would increase tax rates. and yet the mentiod the
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breitbart comments. and that is really not accurate. lou: you know, as a former --as a distinguished chairman of the house ways and means cmittee i think you and i wold agree, revenue illll betaxed, whether it is eliminating loopoles, whether it is eliminating spial treatment, or whether it is raising taxes directly. the result is higher revenue, and it means somebody has to pay taxes to cover. am i incorrect? >> the rates have a much greater limiting a fact and restrictin affecton entrepreneurship. and so therefore there really are to be avoided n every way possible. but the country has got to face up to this mounting debt and liability which is not een been admitted to in this 16 chilan
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dollars. and this is -- this is a massive, massive chasm that is facing the country. and if we dont do something about it and get on with it now it's goingo give more and ore and more difficult. lou: as interim mmb commission that you served on that was supposed to have taken this out under bi clinton. that realljust set the stage r the commission that you just referred to,the erskine bowles commission, and here w are almost 20 years later. wee out of time. i wish we had more.. i appreciate you. great see you. and be sure to tell newt gingrich's love for me. there is a sto behin that. i should not have done tha. my best to you. up next, the civil war raging in serious sets off alarms in the obama administrtion as reports of chemical weapons are surfacing. weill be talking syria, egypt,
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♪ lou: protests in cairo turning violentoday. the president dictatorshi under threat. at least 100,000 egyptis broke througpolice lines andi and dates to reach the presidential palace before they wereforced back riot police with batons and teargs. demonstrations sgnaling momentum, of course, for the opposition which brought out at least 20,000 proteers last week. that rivals the eevels of protest back in the so-called arab spring, february of 011, en president hni mubarak was
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ousted. well, joiningus now, colonel oliver north, fox is mlitary analyst,ost of wr stories, author of a terric cllection of stories, new york times be-seller, euros proved. great to have you withus. congratulations on the book. >> thank you. lou: want g to that njust a moment. i want to get yo rection to what we're watching take place and to that -- t rear square at the presidentia palace in egypt. >> here is the good nws. there are 100,000 people left in ypt who want to protest a diatorship of sharia which is what we're going to see with te muslim brotherhood backi more cy and his regime ad his attempt at dictatorshi. it will be crushe the bad news is they will suppress this rebelllon. they will suppress it with the police and thh muslim brotherhood talks. at the end of the day, the chriian movement that used to exist, the coptic christian
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churches no loger a force to be reckoned with. secular muslims no longer have a role to play in th government, and utimately that rebounds to our disadvtage. our only real ally in that part of the world to my israel. >> and the reason we continue to fund this government cannot to continue the picies of which egypt is simply a part,ibya as well, the dstanceof which we have remained from events in sysyria without a clear cut policy. what are your houghts? >> well, thisserious ituation habecome much more sious simply because we now have evidence that the asie regime is moving the precursors nd emical agents to places we may nato took alook at it today and id, they're going to do something about it. as you and i know, nato is toothless to do anything about itithout the united states,
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-nd it could tae upwards of about 50,000 tros to ecure those chemical munitions, weapons of mass destruction that reaten not only the people inside syria, but also the neighborhood, to include trkey, thus the need for those patriot missiles coming oe. lo are you surprised that we are sending patriot miilee and defee systems to he turs? >> no. in fact of this has been hanging fire for some motths. the one to make sure they y have some means of protectg themselves, not simply rom rockets comingin from syria, but they want to protect themlves from what the iranians are build with the helpof course. lou: and we can talk forever about the urkey ad th relationship thatis emergi there, t want to alk your, as we wrap up, about this new bo. oliver north, heroes proof. set in the futurein which you imagine issues that, well,
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frankl are taking place today. >> twenty yeas from now and i did not have any idea that the terror attack that illed ericans would be wise about by an administration r that israel would face the exitential threat that it does oda those kinds of things are in this book. of course, hopefully, a brighter future fr america when we realize was really happenin, the nd amendment being denied by the unitednations kamal this that this administration is doing in this book. by the way, service membe, those who are serving overseas, soldiers, sailors, airmen, garcia, marines to make you want to get a signed copy ge oliver north. on the side of that boston will be up there in new york next week the arm navy gme. that ad in the mdle of the program. i have t say, the army. lou: i he k t. mcfarlan and a host of olks, adiral jmes
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lyons, they're going to be riht with you on that. >> youot it to my brother. it will be a geat game, no afford to being in new york with you on monda. u: the floor to it. you can get a copy of euos proved on-line or at bookstores now. to to get a link that will work as well. twen-seven days until the fiscal cliff. president oama and the peaker still t negotiating. are they serious about solvi this crisis? the "a-team". they join us in momnts. obamacare at least one year away from full implementation but you don't have to wait for the tax hikes. $317 billi in new axes. set to kkick in january 1st. and we will show you the latet increase brought to you by the people who creat obamacare .
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♪ lou: welcome all fundamental dishonesty at the heart of america's financial criss. my next guest saas amicans really seems of want a european size government with urrent american size tax rates. one or the other has got to go. we will see. joining us now, author of the best seller, get ready f armageddon. also, a recording o -- iil explain my laughter. his new holiday cd, making irits bright available on the amazon and itunes. i am tryg to think how to do it. >>he words stuck in your throat.
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lo iis terrific. it is wonderful. re to prove the point, a it's ggod to have you. i wish youots of luck. by the way, s t eyn. that's right. and igot it covered. >> that's right. why do i have totake lessons from this impertinent foreigner. lou: i don't seeanything important abouttit. as see a lot of original thought and some damn fine intellect been brought to bear against an otherwise simple mind politician that cannot quite grasp theimportance of solutions. you do. >> i think that was the real question of the heart of my book. i think the question at the heart of t election that the rld waned the answer to. is the united states capable of serious course correction? and i think both on november the sixth and in the so-called fiscal clef, sokol negotiations that followed, we are telling th orld that the united states
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is not capable f serious course correcon, and that will have catastrophic consequence for america. lo when yousa catastrophic consequences, tonight it seems as if we are, this roadcast has been organized to prove your point. house ways and means committee in 1996 who was prsident at almost the destruction of the government under resident clinton and peaker gingrich. we have his xperience, also the experience as a member of th budget commission put together by presint clinton which came to nothin just as the simpson bles commission came to nothing. and as this fiscal clef being managed by his president does not look promising. >> that is reallythe point you brought up earlier. when you have european levelsof spending wich we now have come up you have traditional american tax rates, that cannot give.
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amerans have a certain selfma. canada, americans think of canada as a semi french socialist market. total government spending in cada i about 42 of gdp. is now 41% in he unied states commits of the difference between the sturdy, manley republic of limited government and self-relianceitizens and the semi french monarchy actually just down to 1%. we actually spend, government spends more r citizen on the average amercan than the french government ds in the erage frenchman. lou: i think you're being unfair to americans. we think of quebec,but certainly not l of canada, and more of ourfuge. reach extreme. >> they're building a male curtain. you better get there soon. lou: as we look at what is happening, bl archer is talking about $86 trillion in unfunded liabilities as we
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cannot manage n the 16 trillion in debt or consecutiv years f italian dollar ficit brought to us by george w. bush, and all fairness. >> well, i tnk the point here is that when eople make comparisons, comparisons are relevant because youan run the mbers and sain termsof gd -- relation togdp or nevr,e are not quite as bad as greece or portugal or never, bu they are just talking about a few ring keating billions. a trillion word is really unique to the united states. and i think that s what is going tokill us, the abolute numbers. germany can affordto bailout gree. nobody c afford to bailout the united states and would agee actually with bill ahr that i ink underate if you take the total debt situation, you're talking about just shy of three-quarters of a million dollars for the -- per
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american family. so you get a cup of coffee from a waitress in the dner, think of loading three-quarters of a million dollars of debt on to heshoulders for what? for what? does nothing to shw for. lou: her children and their children that will be paying a large measure of that. great to have you with us. making spirits bright. and after america with one of the ugliest pictures of an american adaver toe tg to. >> doom and the oven is the into debt. lou: at least some balan here you know h much are president loves balance. great to have you with this. up ext, the fiscal cliff. it is hung up on tax forthe rich. not really. we will tell you why those taxes argoing upregardless othe deal. torrow, formeru.s. ambsador to the unite nations, moody's
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keep -- chief eonomists. st-selling author among our guest. please be th us. and as we go to break, here's a little christmas cheer.
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♪ lou: prgress on avoiding the fiscal clifford appears to be, ll, stifled. it turns up the president is hitting the rich with tax increases regardless. the internal revenueservice releasg 159 new regulations and rules, heading investment income and wages for high income individuals. these regulationspassed has thing to do, of course, with the fiscal cliff and everything to d with obamacare, including a almost 4 percent surtax on
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capital gains and dividends, plus almost 1 percent tax on the new tax is estmated to. generate threonine 117 billion over ten years, just about 12 percent of the two and a half trilon the budget committee estimatethe law will cost of that time. here we go. 2013 looks le an interesting, interesting yer. this year the mighty mississippi river lmost too shallow to even move barges, barges carrying food, fuel, other commoties. right now it is very difficult passage on the mississippi. warm weather, drought, the reason the army corps of engineers typically would be releasing more water into the river from the misuri allow one barges to pass fo another month so, but the missouri river is also dramatically lowered to be this means billions of dollars of commerce will have to find alternative means to get to maket. the midwest drought has increased the value.
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so much so there is a sharp increa in the theft of hay from fields. some farmers have resorted to putting gps tacking devices n those bales so that tey can track a stolen. up net, hou peaker turning -- runing into medical opposition over his proosals. democrats sending mixed signals over what is n the negotiating table. that's right. and the "a-team" will be taking all of that and a great deal more. ining us. they're right here. ght here. right now. ♪ you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast, long lasting relief, use doctorecommended gaviscon®. only gaviscon® forms a prective brier that helps block stomach acid from splashing up- relieving the pain quickly. try fast, long lasting gavisn®.
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♪ lou: joing me now, the "a-team," columnist, autor, foerrosecutor, fox is legal
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analyst,ormer clinton adviser, fox news political analyst. thank you all for being here. i have to start with this fiscal cliff that is being managed. i said at the beginning of this broadcast, this is unequivocally and solely thepresident's decision. it is his soluon that will determine whether we go into a fiscal cliff. why is te republican party not getting that? >> well, i think they missed out on a big opportunity to own this argunt. theyissed out on it. mitt romney missed out on it dung the presidential campaign. and it was missed out on this time around. a lot of conservatives are real hoping thate was going to d dig his heels in on this issue and but for the proposal that was all right and ask and we could count on it and maybe do some of the pr and marketing to back tha up so we can swing public opinion. >> except clearly that is not happening. >> let's move forward. hindsight. okay. mistakes were made. now what to do? a tour republican party sees
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this is a huge political gam, why don't they do smmething about it? >> the republican party is going to get blamed. if you look a all of the polling, the pure research, everyone is saying this is the republicanfault. i think at this point they need, he needed do what e di. that's all he could do. needed to p somethingor it. lou: we need to -- makes it sound as though, making it sound as if there is nothng the republicans can do, that it is noa maer that is, by default, one >>heepublicans are egaged command greek, and lf-destructive behavior. thateing said, they have not supported pro-growth, pro job creation policies involvin lower taes, stimulus, withh som semblance of motion that there has to be araise in revenue with a consistent, concerted foison message. because the republican failure, and it is an aject faile, the political gain
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ghost abroad, and the democrats. >> they're advocating for mor revenue. they're ding it their deductions and loopholes. lou: i i hear more about deduions and loophol. >> i know. >> the amen people care about principle one thing cannot ration, reasonable govrnment that suits tir needs and approaches, at least some level of the vaues tt we still hold as a country we're coming right back with the "a-team" in moments. stay wh us. want to try to crack it? yeah, that's t way to do it! now we ed a lite bit more... [ male announcer ] at humana, we understand the value of quality time and personal attention. which is why we are proud to partner withealth care professionals who understand the difference thaquality time with our members can make... that'a very nice cake ohh! [ giggles ] [ male announcer ] huma thanks the physians, nurses,ospitals, pharmacists and other health professionals who helped us achieve the highest average star rating
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u:oday bob kostas offered a sort of apology i think they become standard, the template, antian exquisite piece of rationalizing d blame shifting in one. at is magnificent, said, my mistake, and i left it open for
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too much miscommunication. said in a ier view on the dan patrick show that is illiant stuff. great. he apologize for the mistake of others. as they fail to comprend his lofty musings. do you think you will hear -- llowing the template. >> i he seen in candidate, they engage with great frequency. >> deny, deny, make counter again, that is the what we -- -- lou: there is no denial for prosecutor and state in frida, george zimmerman they released a
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picture of that. a color pto with the bloody nose. lou: ii this was shown i my opinio i want you lee we would not have a discussion about george zimmerman. >> it was shown but it was gist a black and white a binning, defense had to ask. the same picture but now in color, defense asked again and again. to be fair torosecution,. lou: i know how fair you lawyers like to be. >> that iss. they may not have had theolor in their own file. lou: are we going through this? >> just giving you both sides. lou: do you think that any grand jury would have broughthis -- if they had seen that. no. this -- >> they saw the black andhite to beair, they jusdidn't see the cor. >> i don't think that black and white photo and cor photo
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elicit the same span, you look at this -- response, you look at this photo you immediately think self-defense. lou: we have color otherwise inkhat a travesty of justi all those grand juries in the day of black and white photos. >> it is probable cause for a grand jy. lou: and do you thnk that he should be prosecuted? >> you know, my sense is given that picture, i'm a lot less supporve of pro psecution but. >> it would have changed a lot of people's mines, and if the media had not rushehed to judgeo quickly. >> it will turn on the stan your ground law. lou: that is the answer, should have been prosecutedn that. >> i do not have all of the facts. lou:
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